Podcasting has reached an inflection point: more than half of Americans have tried a podcast and over 25% are weekly listeners. 

One of the biggest things that sets podcasting apart from other media is there are no traditional gatekeepers. This is a double-edged sword: there are now over 2 million shows to choose from, making discovery is a big challenge. But the lack of gatekeepers also means podcasts don’t have to achieve huge scale to survive: they can niche-down and raise the level of discourse for a small community. So the key to loving podcasts is to find your niche.

In my case, my niche is experienced startup marketing operators. But most of what I find is beginner-focused and bland.

What Makes A Bad (and Good) Podcast

The worst podcasts adhere to a formula:

1. First, episodes are usually short and snappy. 35 minutes. Just long enough to check the box of having had-on someone important, and not so long that we’ll get to anything substantive.

2. Hosts ask perfunctory questions like “how did you decide to get into marketing?” and “what advice would you give folks just getting started.”

3. Next, guests offer canned responses, often broad generalizations like “hire in a great team.”

4. And then the hosts move-on. No follow-ups. No pushing for more details. Onto the next topic.

I don’t have time for content like that. And neither do you. 

The best business podcasts are different.

Tim Ferriss and Joe Rogan interviews go on for not 35 minutes but 120! There’s a reason for that: extracting something unique from the guest and helpful to the listener requires digging-in. Some podcasts inspire: they go deep on big ideas like the future of work or blockchain or public policy.

Others relate stories that operators can learn from. When guests offer platitudes, some hosts to push for more. Some are transparent about failure: in the real world people get fired. Leaders get layered. Business units get shuttered. This type of authenticity is completely lacking in mainstream media, but I’ve found a handful of podcasts that get there.

Ranking Methodology

My unique palette has led me to create a unique podcast grading rubric which I hope you’ll appreciate:

• Operator score - do the podcast hosts press on guests to share specifics that I can implement in my business, or are most episodes vague platitudes and generalized concepts

• Inspiration score - some podcasts inspire, like hearing the story about how the founders o Airbnb refused to die, selling Obama-O’s cereal as a PR stunt at the DNC Convention. If you are into stories being an entrepreneur or being your best-self - these pods might be for you.

• “Trendz” score - it’s fun to analyze trends and pontificate on the future of media, tech, politics, and other interesting topics. If that’s your jam, you’ll love these pods!

A note on methodology: because I value operational expertise I can learn from above all else, I weighted the Operator score 1.5X the weight of Inspiration and “Trendz.” I’m sharing the raw scores and then the weighted total, upon which the rankings are based. 

So without further ado, here are the best podcasts for startup marketing leaders. 

#9 Tim Ferriss's Podcast

• Operator score score - 6/10

• Inspiration score - 2/10 

• “Trendz” score - 2/10 

As someone who has a podcast of his own, there's one thing that really stood out to me: Tim Ferriss’s episodes are much longer than average. But rather than a sign of an undisciplined host, I actually consider the long length a very good sign. 

I've found in my own podcasting that it takes a minimum of 35 minutes to get past the platitudes to uncover ideas that are truly new and tease-out examples that listeners can learn from. Tim Ferriss covers a broad swath of topics, so not every episode makes sense for startup growth leaders, but here are a handful that I found particularly helpful:

• Jim Collins, author of Good to Great - I hadn’t read Good to Great for a decade, but after hearing this interview I realized how important his Flywheel and Hedgehog concepts are to startup operators. It provided an organizing framework for a lot of what I’ve discovered for myself about scaling startups in the intervening years since first reading the book. 

• Jerry Seinfeld  - needs no introduction. But i found his take on writing and creativity helpful and inspiring. In particular, I loved the idea of setting a goal to write for a specific amount of time and then giving yourself a reward, rather than expecting yourself to write (or do any deep work) for the entire day. 

• Jerry Colonna - someone I’ve had the pleasure of working with, Jerry is a former venture capitalist turned Buddhist. He runs Reboot.io which offers executive coaching and guidance for leading with trust and empathy. Jerry’s starting point is quite far afield relative to other more grounded conversations, but Jerry’s approach to empathy has always stuck with me. 

• Scott Belsky - this episode really resonated with me. In particular I liked Scott’s concept that part of being a great startup leader is narrating the drive to your team and pointing out milestones. I also liked the way he framed the idea of “merchandising” - applying the concept of marketing promotions and incentives to ourselves and creating rewards for important tasks.

#8 Animalz Content Marketing Podcast

• Operator score score - 7/10

• Inspiration score - 2/10 

• Trendz score - 1/10

I have been a practitioner of content marketing for a decade, since before that was a buzzword. But most content on content-marketing is meant for beginners, and doesn’t really ladder-up into a unified vision for how content marketing can be a strategic lever for revenue growth.

Animalz is different. It’s simply the best quality strategic thinking on content marketing I have ever encountered. Animalz works with growth-stage startups and scale-ups, so the thinking is intermediate or advanced. It’s perfect for when you’ve past “throwing things against the wall” and are ready to think about content as a repeatable engine for growth.

Some of what I’ve learned here I knew beforehand, but because there’s clearly a unified vision for repeatable revenue grown underpinning the Animalz team’s thinking, their wisdom has given me the confidence to completely overhaul the content marketing strategy at three startups I advise. 

#7 Masters of Scale

• Operator score score - 7/10

• Inspiration score - 2/10 

• Trendz score - 2/10 

This podcast by Reid Hoffman is probably the podcast I was most excited about when it first launched. Th I found the concept of “Letting Fires Burn” particularly helpful in the interview with Selina Tobaccowala who co-founded Evite and was president at SurveyMonkey. However a lot of the episodes are with leaders who are already so successful (will.i.am, Drew Houston, Bill Gates) that the wisdom isn’t as directly applicable to a mid-stage startup operator.

Some of the concept in this podcast are broadly applicable in business which is why I rated it high on the “learn from examples” score. A few examples are Selina Tobaccowala’s “letting fires burn,” the Skype exec’s story of sequencing, and the General McChrystal concept of “letting your team know all the things that it’s okay not to do.” 

#6 Exit Strategy

• Operator score - 7/10 

• Inspiration score - 2/10

• “Trendz” score - 2/10 

This is the newest podcast on the list, and has just 8 episodes. Moiz Ali took the direct to consumer (DTC) Native deodorant brand from $0 to a $100M acquisition by Proctor & Gamble in 28 months.

I worked at Microsoft with Moiz’s brother and had heard his story, but I’m obsessed with his podcast. I’ve worked for and advised a ton of DTC brands like Mirror, Coterie Party, and consumer SaaS businesses like Codecademy and Scribd, so I found the tactics that Moiz and his guests discuss particularly relevant to my types of businesses. However I'd argue that because DTC businesses are so easy to understand, the learnings found here are easy to learn from and then apply to more complex business models. 

What really stands out is that Moiz gets guests to share specific details and numbers that are rarely shared elsewhere, like monthly media spend and CAC. Moiz also pushes guests to share failures such as Episode 7 about scaling Loot Crate and then going through bankruptcy. It was so authentic and I learned so much. 

The only reason I don’t rank this pod higher: it’s unclear if Moiz plans to continue with a second season.

#5 Hacks on Tap 

• Operator score - 3/10

• Inspiration score - 4/10

• Trendz score - 7/10

To gain a fresh perspective on my craft, I’ve found it’s helpful to be inspired by other disciplines. Politics and marketing are cousins, and I’ve found much to be gleaned from listening to the way veteran political strategists break down campaigns. And when it comes to campaign strategy, Hacks on Taps is the gold standard: they dive deep into messaging, data, and interview the operators behind the campaigns. I also appreciate that the co-hosts bring perspectives from both sides of the aisle. 

You won’t be able to copy and paste what you learn here exactly, but there’s plenty to learn from, you’ll walk away inspired by these grand political campaigns, and you’ll connect dots in new ways. For example, the hosts argue that in recent years politics has become driven increasingly by a culture war, and less by candidates, issues, and policies. How should businesses and brands think about their positioning in a culture war? Brands like Disney, Nike, Airbnb, and Detal have all taken stands in the culture war over the past year and for the most part consumers have rewarded them. How should startups think about this? Hacks on Tap can help inform our approach.

#4 OV Build

• Operator score score - 7/10

• Inspiration score - 3/10 

• Trendz score - 3/10 

I hadn’t actually heard of OpenView Partners in the context of venture capital, but they have quietly built some of the best content for startup marketing operators out there. I discovered their podcast by hunting for interviews with specific operators like the VP of Marketing at Freshly. I stayed for interviews with heads of growth at large businesses like Atlassian. Their most recent season focuses on Product-Led Growth, which I’ve found particularly insightful. 

#3 Pivot with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway

• Operator score score - 3/10

• Inspiration score - 5/10 

• Trendz score - 8/10

Pivot is hands-down my favorite podcast. It ranks #5 on this list because it focuses on the intersection of media, politics, and technology and over-indexes on Big Tech rather than growth-stage startups. As a result, there’s not as much that’s specifically relevant to growth-stage startup operators and what they can learn. 

That said, I can’t stop listening. It’s like candy for my mind. And I’ve fallen in love with both co-hosts Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway. Scott in particular is something of a hero to me because he takes unpopularly-moderate positions relative to a lot of lefties, he’s not afraid of taking eccentric if entertaining positions, and he’s comfortable making bold predictions and being wrong.

#2 My First Million 

• Operator Score - 4/10

• Inspiration Score - 8/10

• Trendz Score - 5/10

This podcast is basically growth-porn. It’s easy to feel disconnected from growth at a large tech startup, so My First Million often focuses on niche businesses and side-hustles whose owners have hacked their way to millions. My inner entrepreneur comes away from every episode fired up to hustle harder and build something. 

There are tactics all of us can learn from, though they may skew more toward founders and hustlers trying to get their first bit of traction rather than growth-stage CMOs with million dollar budgets. What keeps me coming back week after week is the perspective that co-hosts Shaan and Sam offer: we can hustle, we can succeed, and here’s how. They share ways to hack various parts of their work and personal lives and offer accessible tidbits on stoicism, investing, time management, and networking.

Finally, Shaan and Sam aren’t afraid to jump around and comment on current events and trendz, meaning every episode has a few nuggets of whatever’s going on in the world right now such as cryptocurrencies or NFTs.

#1 The Growth TL;DR

• Operator score - 9/10

• Inspiration score - 6/10

• Trendz score - 3/10

This pod is perfect for the typical head of marketing at a growth-stage startup, and is my all-around #1 pick. It consistently delivers examples operators can learn from and apply.  Many podcasts, especially in the B2B startup marketing space, are created by the mar-tech vendors themselves. Many of the rest are hosted by agency owners who feed off the ecosystem.

The result is their episodes sometimes feel like propaganda: soft ball questions, platitudinous answers, and no push-back from hosts who are afraid to offend, Yuck. 

The Growth TL;DR is different. It’s co-hosted by Kieran Flanagan the VP of Marketing at Hubspot, but it never feels like he is schilling for vendors or pandering to guests. The topics they cover are a great fit for a growth stage startup operator. In particular I loved interviews with Oji Udezue, VP of Product at Calendly and Elena Verna. 

The hosts rarely talk about current trends or topics in the zeitgeist, hence the weaker “Inspiration score.” And the content is quite dry: perfect for an operator like me looking to nerd-out, but not particularly uplifting.

Honorable Mention / Podcasts I Listen to that Didn't Make the Cut 

Out of the 20+ podcasts that I evaluated when making the list, there were a handful that didn’t make the list that I wanted to call out! 

Startup Marketing Stories

• Operator score score - 9/10

• Inspiration score - 2/10 

• Trendz score - 3/10

I couldn’t do a roundup of podcasts without mentioning my own! Its hosted by yours truly along with Aditya Vempaty (VP marketing at NexHealth, formerly VP of Marketing at Amplitude). We published our first season in Fall 2020 and hope to publish our second in Fall of 2021. 

We tried to practice what I preach here: we prep hard for each interview including doing a pre-interview before the taping. Our interviews are long because we ask tons of follow-up questions and really try to get to unique points of view and detailed examples that our listeners can learn from. 

And we try to shine a light on operators who are pushing the envelope but who you haven’t already heard of. 

TradeOffs

• Operator score score - 6/10

• Inspiration score - 3/10 

• Trendz score - 2/10 

This podcast appears to have very few episodes so I didn’t feel right putting it on the list just yet. It's hosted by Patrick Campbell the co-founder of ProfitWell (formerly Price Intelligently) which is a great consulting firm that helps startup teams figure out pricing and what customers value using data. I learned a ton from working with Price Intelligently when I was head of marketing at Codecademy. 

I also love the name “tradeoffs'' which is at the very heart of both product marketing and also at the core of decision-making as a leader. The best parts of TradeOffs are how they think about value in SaaS businesses like Evernote and Office 365. I didn’t find it quite as compelling as the others as it’s a bit more product-wonky than growth-focused. 

How to Take Over the World

This is a relatively new podcast. In the same way that Hacks on Tap is helpful by taking us outside of growth marketing to provide a new lens, this podcast offers something similar. The difference is that this focuses more on the political careers of famous figures like Putin and Caesar, rather than building companies. But the stories are inspiring!

A16z Podcast

A16Z has been very prolific with their content marketing. Sonal Choksi who hosts their podcast efforts knows her stuff, but I tend to find a lot of the conversations a bit too academic and not relevant to builders. 

Conclusion 

Podcasts improve the speed at which operators  can learn.  Books take years to travel from an author’s head to a published book. The content that survives the journey is sanded-down so it can apply more broadly and withstand the test of time. But startups require speed. A years-long journey means that many tactics that were once innovative are now widespread. Podcasts shorten the time from idea to audience considerably, allowing startup operators to learn from what’s working today. 

Podcasts create a more intimate space to share failure. Podcasts allow casual conversations, the type I might have over a dinner with fellow CMOs. It’s in these types of conversations, comparing notes, that we let our guard down and share mistakes, trade offs, and failures, which is how the best learning happens. 

It’s for these reasons I have over the past two years become a voracious listener, and, as of a few months ago, the co-creator of a startup marketing podcast of my own. So, dear operators, go forth, drink deeply from this font of learning, go forth and conquer. Onward.